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Manga RF saga and power levels
Topic Started: Dec 1 2016, 05:20 PM (6,390 Views)
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My thoughts on how it went down

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this but this is what I think we know
-It took ssjb to fight golden Frieza. That's what the narrator said
-based on goku vs frost there isn't a godly gap between fourth and fifth forms. That means if goku fought fourth form Frieza like in the anime and movie he had to have fought him as a ssjg. Basically what that means is that there isn't a gigantic gap between ssjg and ssjb. We learned something
-there's an 80x gap between third and fourth form Frieza according to his namek power levels. Idk how that helps but maybe you guys can think of something with it
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魔王子

It's hard to fit Toyotaro's take on Resurrection F into the Super manga. I personally just go with the 2-base theory.
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Yeah I don't think we can use his RF manga in place of the off panel Super manga saga. That RF adaptation he drew was just a promo for movie. Goku doesn't seem to have two bases in the Super manga like he did in the RF manga
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 1 2016, 06:03 PM.
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Eh, I use it anyway. I don't see why it would be any different. I also don't see how else would it play out.
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Yeah I guess the gist of it is probably the same. The only difference I think is that since goku didn't absorb ssjg in the DBS manga and instead uses the actual form goku had to have used ssjg against fourth form Frieza right? Do we agree on that?

gohan lost his ultimate state in toyotaro's manga for RF right? So assuming first form Frieza one shotted him then Frieza was idk 2x stronger? And fourth form is 226x stronger so then fourth form Frieza and ssjg goku are 452x stronger than gohan...that doesn't put them higher than gotenks does it? That doesn't sound right lol
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 1 2016, 06:52 PM.
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滅Are you frightened?

Isn't there a panel in the Dragon Ball Super manga where it seems like he was tapping into Super Saiyan God in base? If so, that's probably what happened or he either used the actual form to combat Frieza's fourth form.
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Solid Snake
Dec 1 2016, 08:06 PM
Isn't there a panel in the Dragon Ball Super manga where it seems like he was tapping into Super Saiyan God in base? If so, that's probably what happened or he either used the actual form to combat Frieza's fourth form.
He did it for a split second to KO Trunks, but it's so fast we don't even see it.
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No, not that one, it was another one were he was charging forward and then he has like a image of Super Saiyan God behind him.
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I just assume he had Goku use SSGod to fight Fourth Form Freeza, no one is surprised by Goku being able to use it in the tournament after all except Goten and Trunks. And no, their reactions are more "Goku STILL isn't gonna use Blue?" rather than "OMGF! SSGod still exists!".

The two base theory can't exist in the manga solely based on the fact SSGod being absorbed is what makes it a thing, since SSGod is just another form Goku can use, he has only one Base mode.
Edited by ekrolo2, Dec 1 2016, 08:37 PM.
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Solid Snake
Dec 1 2016, 08:29 PM
No, not that one, it was another one were he was charging forward and then he has like a image of Super Saiyan God behind him.
This one?

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That was in the RF manga not Super

Goku doesn't do this in Super ever. He does have the ability to snap into ssjg pretty easily though. Doesn't seem like he can utilize in base though. Probably because he didn't absorb it. He just kept the form and uses it as a form between ssj3 and ssjb. I like it that way personally
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ekrolo2
Dec 1 2016, 08:36 PM
I just assume he had Goku use SSGod to fight Fourth Form Freeza, no one is surprised by Goku being able to use it in the tournament after all except Goten and Trunks. And no, their reactions are more "Goku STILL isn't gonna use Blue?" rather than "OMGF! SSGod still exists!".

The two base theory can't exist in the manga solely based on the fact SSGod being absorbed is what makes it a thing, since SSGod is just another form Goku can use, he has only one Base mode.
I don't really think Goku needs to absorb Super Saiyan God to make use of the "Saiyan Beyond God" state. Goku and Vegeta are both familiar enough with God Ki to utilize Super Saiyan Blue, so who's to say they can't power up their base states with that knowledge of God Ki? The way I see it, there's no other way to make the events of Resurrection 'F' work in the context of Toyotaro's Super manga without drastically changing Toriyama's original vision.
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Dec 1 2016, 09:41 PM
ekrolo2
Dec 1 2016, 08:36 PM
I just assume he had Goku use SSGod to fight Fourth Form Freeza, no one is surprised by Goku being able to use it in the tournament after all except Goten and Trunks. And no, their reactions are more "Goku STILL isn't gonna use Blue?" rather than "OMGF! SSGod still exists!".

The two base theory can't exist in the manga solely based on the fact SSGod being absorbed is what makes it a thing, since SSGod is just another form Goku can use, he has only one Base mode.
I don't really think Goku needs to absorb Super Saiyan God to make use of the "Saiyan Beyond God" state. Goku and Vegeta are both familiar enough with God Ki to utilize Super Saiyan Blue, so who's to say they can't power up their base states with that knowledge of God Ki? The way I see it, there's no other way to make the events of Resurrection 'F' work in the context of Toyotaro's Super manga without drastically changing Toriyama's original vision.
There's nothing that says they can't do that, I just think there's far more evidence pointing to Toyotaro giving the stupid, convoluted absorption thing the middle finger it rightfully deserves and just having SSGod & Blue be wholly separate forms Goku & Vegeta can access.

Plus, given how vague Toriyama's outlines are, I honestly don't see the issue with him the anime having Goku be in base and the manga hypothetically making him use God to fight Freeza's fourth form.
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ekrolo2
Dec 1 2016, 09:53 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Dec 1 2016, 09:41 PM
ekrolo2
Dec 1 2016, 08:36 PM
I just assume he had Goku use SSGod to fight Fourth Form Freeza, no one is surprised by Goku being able to use it in the tournament after all except Goten and Trunks. And no, their reactions are more "Goku STILL isn't gonna use Blue?" rather than "OMGF! SSGod still exists!".

The two base theory can't exist in the manga solely based on the fact SSGod being absorbed is what makes it a thing, since SSGod is just another form Goku can use, he has only one Base mode.
I don't really think Goku needs to absorb Super Saiyan God to make use of the "Saiyan Beyond God" state. Goku and Vegeta are both familiar enough with God Ki to utilize Super Saiyan Blue, so who's to say they can't power up their base states with that knowledge of God Ki? The way I see it, there's no other way to make the events of Resurrection 'F' work in the context of Toyotaro's Super manga without drastically changing Toriyama's original vision.
There's nothing that says they can't do that, I just think there's far more evidence pointing to Toyotaro giving the stupid, convoluted absorption thing the middle finger it rightfully deserves and just having SSGod & Blue be wholly separate forms Goku & Vegeta can access.

Plus, given how vague Toriyama's outlines are, I honestly don't see the issue with him the anime having Goku be in base and the manga hypothetically making him use God to fight Freeza's fourth form.
The problem is that base Goku does fight Freeza in Toyotaro's take on Resurrection 'F' so it would seem Toriyama wanted base Goku to fight Freeza, since it happens in all 3 version of the story. The way I see it, Saiyan Beyond God is imbuing the base state with God Ki, much like Super Saiyan Blue is imbuing Super Saiyan with God Ki.
Edited by ThePrinceOfSaiyans, Dec 1 2016, 10:02 PM.
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ekrolo2
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ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Dec 1 2016, 10:02 PM
ekrolo2
Dec 1 2016, 09:53 PM
ThePrinceOfSaiyans
Dec 1 2016, 09:41 PM
ekrolo2
Dec 1 2016, 08:36 PM
I just assume he had Goku use SSGod to fight Fourth Form Freeza, no one is surprised by Goku being able to use it in the tournament after all except Goten and Trunks. And no, their reactions are more "Goku STILL isn't gonna use Blue?" rather than "OMGF! SSGod still exists!".

The two base theory can't exist in the manga solely based on the fact SSGod being absorbed is what makes it a thing, since SSGod is just another form Goku can use, he has only one Base mode.
I don't really think Goku needs to absorb Super Saiyan God to make use of the "Saiyan Beyond God" state. Goku and Vegeta are both familiar enough with God Ki to utilize Super Saiyan Blue, so who's to say they can't power up their base states with that knowledge of God Ki? The way I see it, there's no other way to make the events of Resurrection 'F' work in the context of Toyotaro's Super manga without drastically changing Toriyama's original vision.
There's nothing that says they can't do that, I just think there's far more evidence pointing to Toyotaro giving the stupid, convoluted absorption thing the middle finger it rightfully deserves and just having SSGod & Blue be wholly separate forms Goku & Vegeta can access.

Plus, given how vague Toriyama's outlines are, I honestly don't see the issue with him the anime having Goku be in base and the manga hypothetically making him use God to fight Freeza's fourth form.
The problem is that base Goku does fight Freeza in Toyotaro's take on Resurrection 'F' so it would seem Toriyama wanted base Goku to fight Freeza, since it happens in all 3 version of the story. The way I see it, Saiyan Beyond God is imbuing the base state with God Ki, much like Super Saiyan Blue is imbuing Super Saiyan with God Ki.
I don't put much stock in the Toyotaro manga, it's made to promote the film and abide by rules of the film which dictate that Goku will fight Freeza in Base because that's what's in the movie. Super is clearly more flexible when it comes to that. For comparison sake, look at his BoG in contrast to the others. Unlike the film and the anime, there is no Super Saiyan Goku vs Beerus even if that's (arguably) when the best fighting between them happens in both mediums. You'd think he wouldn't be able to just cut that chunk of the battle out but it does.

There's nothing saying Saiyan Beyond God doesn't exist in the manga, I just feel like SSGod being completely divorced from Base entirely is a pretty big knock against them having any God Ki outside of SSGod and Blue.

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ekrolo2
Dec 1 2016, 10:06 PM
I don't put much stock in the Toyotaro manga, it's made to promote the film and abide by rules of the film which dictate that Goku will fight Freeza in Base because that's what's in the movie. Super is clearly more flexible when it comes to that. For comparison sake, look at his BoG in contrast to the others. Unlike the film and the anime, there is no Super Saiyan Goku vs Beerus even if that's (arguably) when the best fighting between them happens in both mediums. You'd think he wouldn't be able to just cut that chunk of the battle out but it does.

There's nothing saying Saiyan Beyond God doesn't exist in the manga, I just feel like SSGod being completely divorced from Base entirely is a pretty big knock against them having any God Ki outside of SSGod and Blue.

That's fair I suppose, but at the same time, I feel Super Saiyan God would take away from the reveal of Super Saiyan Blue, given how it's presented.

Again, that's fair, I just think my interpretation is more consistent with Toriyama's original vision, at least based on what we know. I also feel the separation of God ki from the forms themselves helps distinguish God Ki from regular Ki.
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